Christianity Knowledge Base:Community Portal/Archive 1

This page in an archive of past activity. Please do not make any changes to it. If you would like to resurrect an issue, mention it on the active Community Portal page.

New welcome template
Aha! I made another template! This template is used to greet new users. Although it is quite simple, but it does the work of welcoming people faster!

To add welcome template to someone's talk page, put this on it

Example:

Citing Mormon text
Good news for people who wants to cite Bible/Mormon text!

I have just created a template which shows the relevant chapter/book when clicked.

Bible quoting
To quote, put this behind your writing that needs quoting, (Faster Alternative:  )

Example 1:

John used to say: "Peter said to him, "You will never wash my feet!" Jesus answered him, "If I don't wash you, you have no part with me.""

 John used to say: "Peter said to him, "You will never wash my feet!" Jesus answered him, "If I don't wash you, you have no part with me.""  

Example 2:

The Bible says: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

'' The Bible says: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." ''

Example 3:

The Bible says: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

'' The Bible says: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." ''

Example 4: (The template messes up if you try to use half-alternative style)

The Bible says: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

'' The Bible says: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." ''

Please Note that sometimes in order to make it work you have to put space in front of it, due to the different ways the Bible names were put onto this site.

Also that the cite template does not put reader into the right verse. You have to indicate the book, chapter and verse behind my cite template.

Bible referencing (without parenthesis)
(Faster Alternative: )

(Faster Alternative 2: )

Book of Psalms quoting
Because of the special Psalms's chapters are named (Psalm instead of Chapter), quoting Psalms requires a new "P_Cite". Use it as you would to Bible quoting. (Faster Alternative: )

Book of Psalms referencing (without parenthesis)
(Faster Alternative: )

(Faster Alternative 2: )

Book of Mormon quoting
To quote, put this behind your writing that needs quoting,

Example:

From the book of Enos (from book of Mormon) "BEHOLD, it came to pass that I, Enos, knowing my father that he was a just man—for he taught me in his language, and also in the nurture and admonition of the Lord—and blessed be the name of my God for it—" (Enos 1:1)

Please Note that because most Mormon books have only 1 chapter, you cannot be specific to which chapter the verse is from.

When there's only one chapter, it's Chapter 1. --BenMcLean 16:43, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Quoting from other articles on CKB
To quote, put this behind your writing that needs quoting, {{Cite|article=(article name)|section=(section number)

Example:

Atheism is widespread in the world and another article on this site shows that Bible warns against it. {{Cite|article=Atheism|section=The Bible warns against Atheism}}

{{Cite|article=Atheism|section=The Bible warns against Atheism}}

Please Note that because most articles have sections, you must put a section's name in the section parameter, even if it is the only section.

Any question ask me.

--inky 09:18, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

A new template has been created to facilitate the current status of the CKB:

{{subst:underconstruction}} 

Check also the recent changes to see other templates and special pages being created, such as the {{Shortcut}} template.

To-Do List

 * add more versions of the bible, crosslinked to one another. Having a complete bible (or set of bibles) online would be a great seed to the rest of the knowledgebase. nsandwich 05:19, 24 March 2006 (UTC)


 * If we want to have a CPOV, we also need a tag that says: This opinion does not necessarily represent x denomination's view or Christian Knowledge Base's. It is only the opinion of the author. "eg. Catholicism is great!" This opinion does not represent the Catholicism denomination's view or Christian Knowledge Base's. It is only the opinion of the author.  Make a template please! Inkybutton 03:17, 26 March 2006 (UTC) User_talk:inkybutton|User:inkybutton


 * We certainly need more Catholics! For example, I imported the article on Sacramental Union, but we also need an article on transubstantiation. Also check confession: it's definitely not from a Catholic POV! BTW I think Avery is our template master. Archola 03:30, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Hello! Wacky hard core Catholic TruthCrusader here, I will go over the Catholic specific stuff this weekend and see what I can do! TruthCrusader 19:31, 30 March 2006 (UTC)


 * For those interested in geography, I think it would be great to have a page for each country. This could include stats about religious affiliation. What proportion of the population is Catholic, Protestant, Other denominations, etc. Additionally, the page could have interesting information about laws, practices, etc. relevant to Christianity in that country. For example, a page on Ireland might explain that divorce was illegal until 1990(?) in that country primarily because of the religious views of a large Roman Catholic population. I think that would be a great addition to the CKB that would also help set us apart from other more general encyclopedias. There is already a Template:Geography to use on these pages. -- nsandwich 02:26, 27 March 2006 (UTC)


 * The templates a red link, but I already created the Category:Geography. Archola 03:32, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Three new templates:

Template:Wikispoon for articles that are less than informative.

Template:CPOV-General for articles that reflect NPOV rather than CPOV

Template:CPOV-Specific for articles that reflect the theologies of some, but not all, Christian denominations.

What do you think?

Archola 09:19, 26 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Archie, good idea. Not so sure about the first one since it could probably be achieved with the Stub template, but no biggie. I think the latter two, however, are quite useful. They are a big step in the direction of resolving the CPOV controversy. Certainly they will help in the interim until the CPOV is more adequately fleshed out. -- nsandwich 02:26, 27 March 2006 (UTC)


 * The Wikispoon tag is for articles that are longer than stubs but still need some info. A good example is the original Trinity article, which BTW I moved to 3 in 1. Archola 03:30, 27 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't think making templates about asking for every denominations view would really be appropriate until we actually get done defining Christianity first.... Homestarmy 03:34, 27 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I think we need some sort of censorship policy, something along the lines of "Not only is this knowladge base censored for minors, but pr0n will be deleted with great prejudice! BWAHAHAHAHAH!" :D Homestarmy 18:37, 27 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Copy the ref and note templates from wikipedia and use them (eg. Islamic view of Jesus attempts to use a "ref" HTML tag). Gracefool 00:30, 28 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I tried, but there seems to be a problem with the FULLPAGENAME variables. Someone should look them over. Archola 00:58, 28 March 2006 (UTC)


 * We also need a substitute for Template:Bibleverse and Template:NIV that points to our online bible (Bible, World English). Archola 00:58, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

New templates


 * Template:Theopedia for articles copied from Theopedia (Calvinism/Reform POV). Template created by me.
 * Template:Catholic for articles copied, directly or indirectly, from the public domain Catholic Encyclopedia (Wikipedia uses this a lot!). Template created by me.
 * Template:OrthodoxWiki for articles copied from OrthodoxWiki (Eastern Christianity POV). This one was created by Nsandwich.

Archola 10:42, 28 March 2006 (UTC)


 * It would really help if we have a short site for CKB ("christianity.wikia.com" is 22 characters). The short site will help for the future of CKB. I suggest as our short site, since it is free. However, we will need to put up the ad logo... --Hayson1991 22:50, 20 April 2006 (UTC)


 * More UserBoxes! --Hayson1991 14:32, 21 April 2006 (UTC)


 * We really need a Template to import a certain part of scripture into the current article. For example,   should display In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. This will really be helpful, since the scripture is protected, and all verses are from the scripture pages, so we do not need to worry about scripture being altered if we succeed in this template. -- H A Y SON1991  20:57, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Source Texts
I think it would be great to have more original source texts on here. You are welcome to add whichever ones you think would be useful. However, please ENSURE that they are in the public domain first. For example, quite shockingly, the King James Bible is not! So you have to be careful and double check and not simply assume that a source text is PD. That being said, you may add as many as you like. Try to stick to the following format: "Title of work (text)" when titling the article. If it is a huge source text and there are multiple chapters, it can be broken down like this:

"Title of work (text)"

"Title of work (text)/chapter X"

"Title of work (text)/chapter Y"

"Title of work (text)/chapter Z/Section 1"

"Title of work (text)/chapter Z/Section 2"

"Title of work (text)/chapter Z/Section 3"

As necessary. Also be sure to add the proper "Category:Religious texts" category to each article, including the chapters and subsections if applicable.

-- nsandwich 06:47, 26 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I'd also like to get the Augsburg Confession, apology of same, Large and Small Catechisms and, well, the whole bloody Book of Concord! I'm sure other traditions have similar documents they'd like to add. BTW, parts of the Book of Mormon are still missing. Archola 03:30, 26 March 2006 (UTC)


 * UPDATE: The full text of the World English Bible is now up.
 * For the sake of vandalism, the entire thing needs to be protected. It's not the type of article that invites outside input, after all. --Avery W. Krouse 14:49, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I think we could upload other versions of Bible text (eg. New World Translation, King James edition etc) so people can compare the differences between translations. Inkybutton 02:32, 26 March 2006 (UTC) User_talk:inkybutton|User:inkybutton
 * There might be copyright issues. Also, while the religious texts don't invite outside output, it might be nice to annotate them (such as linking a reference to Jesus to the Jesus article). Of course, admins can do that. I've been clicking "random page" a lot, so I haven't been working my way though the texts systematically. ;) Archola 03:30, 26 March 2006 (UTC)


 * The link to the Book of Hebrews is red for some reason. Please Fix. -- H A Y SON1991  13:43, 28 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I added the category Category:Religious texts, but I haven't had time to add them all in yet. BTW there is a navigation template missing from the Book of Mormon, which means that portions of the Book of Mormon are blank. Archola 09:01, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Technical and Administrative
The following is a list of potential technical and administrative goals:
 * Article creation
 * Help page
 * Templates
 * Standards
 * Administrative needs
 * CPOV policy
 * Administration policy and Administrator's Noticeboard
 * Administrators, please visit this page and sign in. Place it on your watchlist. CKB:AN
 * Vandalism policy and requests for administrator attention
 * Users, please use this page to request administrator assistance. Administrators, please place it on your watchlist. CKB:RAA

Copyrights
Please use when copying pages from Wikipedia since the GFDL requires attribution to the original authors. Angela (talk) 14:51, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

I think I tagged everything I copied. Do we have a similar tag for Theopedia? I think they're GFDL as well. Archola 01:34, 25 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Angela made that one for us. Not sure how to make them but you would probably have to make your own for Theopedia.


 * They seem to be having bandwith problems on the moment. Too bad. Their article on Biblical Critcism is better than Wikipedia's. Archola 03:33, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Some fundamental questions
To be a successful CPOV encyclopedia/knowledge base, we need:

To develop a style of editing.
Tons to be said here but here is a question: How are we presenting the different opinions of different denominations? Should we state the opinions in a different area or should we integrate them into the article? eg. Alcohol is a substance people drink with alcoholic drinks. ....     If presenting in different area. '' Alcohol is a substance people drink with alcoholic drinks. ....     Catholic: alcohol is bad. Protestant: alcohol is the best substance God has given to us (just to illustrate!) ''

Integrate into article '' Alcohol is consider to be bad by the Catholics, but good by the Protestants. ''

The latter saves time, but the first one gives space for people to write what they think!

Copy Wikipedia or establish own research?
I know it's going to take long but if we keep on copying Wikipedia wouldn't we be end up with an exact copy of wikipedia, except opinionated? If we are going to be an opinionated wikipedia, we might as well put our opinion on the talk pages! (unsigned)

It's been a mixed approach. I've imported quite a few articles about important Christian topics from Wikipedia. I've also created a few articles here. Some of these, such as Roman Empire, are only peripherally about Christianity; however, others, such as Simon Peter, are more directly about Christianity.

Some articles created here, such as Trinity and, well, Simon Peter, need some work. We're a new and still small project, and it will take some time to have enough users to develop good articles on our own. As Nsandwhich stated, the Wikipedia articles are seeds.

Our styles vary, and we don't really have a standard tone yet. Archola 09:29, 26 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Just to clarify, the main difference between us and Wikipedia is that our articles are explicitly from a CPOV (which I'll admit hasn't fully been explained yet, and is still open to discussion). For example, an article on wikipedia about Roman History that might mention Christianity once or twice should look quite different on CKB.


 * It should grow to the point where Roman history is described in terms of its relation to Christianity. In CKB's article about Roman History, persecution of Christians, the crucifixion, and Emperor Constantine would play a much more central role than Julius Caesar. That's the way I see it in my head anyway :) -- nsandwich 02:33, 27 March 2006 (UTC)


 * That's pretty much what I tried to do with Roman Empire. Haven't yet written an article on Constatine, though. 03:28, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm against copying wikipedia in most cases. Wikipedia has a radically different POV. --BenMcLean 19:34, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Theopedia
Just so you know, Theopedia is back up and running. Like Wikipedia, they use the same GFDL license we do, so we should be able to use their text under the same condtions. Unlike Wikipedia, Theopedia has a CPOV (that is, if you don't mind Calvinism ;) Here's their perspective Archola 01:32, 28 March 2006 (UTC)


 * PS: However, we need a Theopedia template similar to Template:Wikipedia. Archola 02:05, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Update Template:Theopedia created. Archola 10:36, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Just so it's out in the open....
I didn't see any links to it on the main page or here, so I thought we should put into the open that we're still debating the "who's POV is a Christian POV" question here: linky if the discussion gets stagant I have a bad feeling it'll come back to haunt us. Homestarmy 01:50, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
 * we're not just gonna forget about this are we? :/ Homestarmy 03:00, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Controversial saint
Nikolai Velimirovic is glorified (cannonized) as a saint by the Serbian Orthodox Church, and yet others have accused him of extreme anti-semitism (including approving of the Holocaust!) The article is linked to several of the articles we recently imported from OrthodoxWiki. OrthodoxWiki describes him in very glowing terms ("Our father among the saints"), while Wikipedia's article, although similar, has a POV tag on it. Archola 20:35, 28 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for letting me know. For now, I am fine with it since it has the CPOV-Specific template slapped on it. People will know that it doesn't necessarily reflect the views of all Christians. In the future, this article could be cleaned up to explain that this is a saint only canonized in the Serbian Orthodox Church. Also, it could have a section explaining the controversy. -- nsandwich 21:04, 28 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, it does now. I actually imported the article from Wikipedia, but the article is so similar to the OrthodoxWiki article that one probably borrows from the other. It was the Most Wanted article after the Robosandwhich run on the A articles (probably because this guy wrote about the apostles, and the OrthodoxWiki articles on the apostles start with the word "Apostle").
 * There is a section on the alleged Anti-semitism. Apparently he did write anti-semetic literature during WWII. The controversy is over whether this was his own views, or if he was writing under duress due to the Nazi occupation. Archola 21:24, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

New Server?
Hi guys, I am considering purchasing a real domain for us and moving us to our own server. The folks at Wikia are really friendly but there have been loads of problems lately that are beyond their control. The site has been going down, going slow, and so on. Additionally, if we had control of the server I could install some of the modules that Monkee has been asking for, such as one which would make the HTML tag work properly. In general, I think it's a good idea. I will pay for the hosting and domain myself, since I really believe in this project. I need some ideas for domain names (we could change the name of the site too, it's not too late for that. CKB seems a bit long-winded). Any thoughts/ideas? -- nsandwich 07:34, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I noticed this weekend that the "save page" button doesn't always work. If the problems continue this might be a good idea. However, look at all the trouble Theopedia has had transferring to a new server. (In their case it was because their old server couldn't handle the traffic). It often seems to be the case that in solving one problem, you create five more. Something to consider. Archola 11:22, 10 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm pretty sure I could handle it :)


 * How about Christipedia? as in, www.Christipedia.org, I think Its kinda catchy.

--Dragoonmac 00:58, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

I like it but I was thinking of moving away from the whole "encyclopedia" thing, since this site plans to be more than just an encyclopedia. We are too limited in our thinking that wiki software lends itself only to encyclopedic type articles. It allows collaboration of any kind indeed!

Any other ideas for domain names? I've decided that I'm definitely going to do this. -- nsandwich 07:05, 12 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi, I'm sorry for the problems recently, we've had two big changes in the name change (which meant a lot of moves and internal changes of course) and the upgrade to MediaWiki 1.7alpha. Both these things will improve the service overall, but they did mean some short-term problems.  We are here for the long-haul and these changes, with their temporary annoyances, are a part of making that happen.  Things should be a lot smoother from here on in!


 * I think it's important to remember that this type of problem can happen with any wiki installation, then difference being with Wikia that you have other people to worry about it! Jason and River are great technical people, and we are close to the MediaWiki developers with all their expertise.  Hosting for yourself also brings other problems of cost and bandwidth - are you sure you can keep financing it as you grow?  We have had several successful wikis move to Wikia for just this reason (Memory-Alpha and Uncyclopedia being the biggest).


 * On the modules you want added - we'd be happy to look at them and add them for this wiki. What is it that you want to add?  Several Wikia have custom extensions, that's not a problem at all.


 * I think you are totally right that you don't need to be limited by the idea of an encyclopedia by the way, there is so much more that can be done with wikis. But I honestly believe that Wikia is the best place to explore that.


 * There will always be a Christianity Wiki at Wikia, it's a great subject and has the potential to be one of the largest and most successful on Wikia. I hope you will stay and be a part of that :) -- sannse (talk) 08:51, 12 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Greetings! I'd just like to echo what sannse has said about this wiki and hope you'll consider staying on with us. I'm sorry to hear of the problems you've been experiencing over the upgrade; our technical staff has been working to fix them and you should be running smoothly again. Please let us know if anything it still shaky!


 * Sannse has already mentioned that you cna ask for custom extensions: for some examples of other wikis running custom extensions, Uncyclopedia's Village Dump is using the forum extension. It also gives a bit of an example of a wiki being used for something other than an encyclopedia!


 * One other thing is that a lot of people begin hosting and running wikis on their own equipment with their own resources and then end up no longer having time or resources to do so; one advantage of being with Wikia is that it is no one person's responsibility to do all themselves; if one person can no longer do it, the wiki is still there for the community to use, and with our staff still maintaining it. Even if it never gets too big and expensive to host, like some of the other wikis here, people get busy with school and jobs and family and don't always have time for regular maintenance, and handing off the job of maintaining it to someone else isn't always so easy. I think the other points have already been covered pretty well.


 * This wiki has really taken off since it's started here, and it would be a shame to split your efforts. As mentioned, there will always be a Christianity wiki here as a Wikia project; while you are free to leave and begin a separate project, we'd really like you to stay and continue working on this one; this project is a real asset to the Wikia community. Cheers, Mindspillage (spill yours?) 15:01, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

No, Jason Gastrich already took that name:. Gastrich has been banned from Wikipedia, for sockpuppetry and for other unChristlike actions, but that site is probably the original basis of the Christian Cabal accusations that keep popping up at Wikipedia. It leaves a rather bad taste in my soul. Archola 12:34, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Possible name "Wiki4Christ" - whaddya think? --BenMcLean 16:02, 9 May 2006 (UTC)


 * ok ... Another possible name: ChristianWiki instead of Christianity. Christianity is such a mouthfull --BenMcLean 19:41, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


 * It's too similar to ChristWiki (christ.relately.com) and could lead to confusion with the fork. Archola 19:45, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Pictures please...
People when you are forking (or spooning, copying etc.) PLEASE upload the revelant picture(s) along with it. It is not good forking the article only.

-- inkybutton inky with that? 09:01, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Related Wikia
Theology Wiki was started by a Methodist minister and a Wikifriend of mine, KHM03. Unfortunately he was forced to retire when a website critical of Wikipedia released personal information about him, leading to harrassment against his family and forcing his retirement from Wikipedia. Recent events have encouraged me to take a Wikibreak from Wikipedia until things at least settle down.

Well, I'm going off-point here. I just want to let people know that TheologyWiki is out there, in case they wish to contribute. Archola 12:25, 25 April 2006 (UTC)